2012-12-02
2012-12-10
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of the appropriations and budget committee. also joined by georgetown university tax law professor john buckley on how the alternative minimum tax is affecting fiscal negotiations. "washington journal" is next. ♪ ♪ host: 25 days to go before the united states faces the fiscal cliff, the white house has rejected a proposal from house republicans to prevent tax hikes and spending cuts at the end of the year. no formal talks between the two sides are scheduled today. will go outside the nation's capital to get your voice involved. republicans -- democrats -- independents -- send us a tweet, post your comments on facebook, or send us an e-mail. we begin with some of the papers across the country today and how this latest proposal from house republicans is playing out in the papers. courtesy of "the atlantic journal-constitution" -- here is "the denver post" -- finally, here is "of the arizona republic" -- here is "the washington post" on what is inside this deal -- we want to get your take on this. what do you think? ted in new york, a democratic caller. what do you think? caller: good morning. i do n

in washington? >>> president obama presses the case for tax hikes on the rich, and the tax cut extension for the middle class, now. >> if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. >> but republicans aren't budging, accusing the president of avoiding tough choices on spending and wasting time in the effort to avoid the fiscal cliff. >> it's not a serious proposal. and so right now, we're almost nowhere. >> will there be a deal by the end of the year? and what are the consequences for the economy if there isn't one? we'll ask the president's lead budget negotiator, treasury secretary tim geithner. >>> then the view from capitol hill. are democrats as divided over cutting medicare as republicans are over tax increases? with us, two voices calling for compromise. republican senator bob corker of tennessee and democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri. >>> finally, our special economic roundtable. as both sides battle over the nation's fiscal health, what can we expect from the economy in a second obama term? w

face the uncertainty that many will face with regard to their taxes. there is no reason that middle income families should go into this holiday season without knowing whether their taxes will go up next year. last year, democrats and republicans work together to cut nearly $1 trillion of spending. now we need to continue that bi- partisan work to cut more spending, and to if congress fails to reach an agreement under the budget control act of 2011, 1.2 trillion dollars in automatic spending cuts will take lace between 2013 and 2021. republicans and democrats agree that indiscriminate across-the- board cuts is not the right and to do at this time in our nation's history. if we trigger the automatic spending cuts and tax increases , grossed a mustard product will fall by half a percentage point -- gross margin bottom will fall by half a percentage point. we will reverse the hard-fought gains over the past few years. we cannot afford to go backwards. instead we need a balanced and bipartisan approach. one that balances the short and long-term needs, distinguishes between foreign invest

's the ideological godfather of the tea party. grover norquist has been the driving force behind the anti-tax movement. his goal, to take big government and, in his words, drown it in the bathtub. norquist's weapon is the taxpayer protection pledge, which was at one point signed by 95% of gop members of congress. >> can you raise your hand if you feel so strongly about not raising taxes? >> on the campaign trail this year, only one republican presidential candidate, jon huntsman, dared to cross him. norquist has clout. he's called the most powerful unelected man in america today. >> he signed a pledge, it's without congress. >> that pledge is for that congress. >> i'm not obligated on the pledge. >> republicans are jumping ship and supporting unspecified r revenue hikes to help cut the deficit. and big business resigned to higher taxes. here is lloyd blankfein. >> we had to lift up the marginal rate. >> norquist's response? >> some of these people have had impure thoughts. no one pulled the trigger and voted for a tax increase. >> to be sure, norquist is still raking in big bucks. according t

know where both sides are on taxes. i think we understand that. but to the speaker's point, we have not had any discussion and any specifics with this president about the real problem, which is spending. we have got to do something about the spending. and obsessions to raise taxes is not going to solve the problem. what will solve the problem is, doing something about the entitlements, taking on the wasteful spending in washington. we can't just keep borrowing money and raising taxes and expecting the problem to go away. that is our point to the president. and as the speaker said, we want to sit down with the president and want to talk specifics. we put an offer on the table now. he has out of hand reject that had. where are the specifics and where are the discussions? nothing is going on. the people of this country are suffering. we ask the president, sit down with us and be serious about the specifics in the spending so we can stop the wasteful spending in washington and finally address the problem. >> as we continue to try to solve the fiscal cliff, the thing we have continued to

will happen on the tax treatment of that stuff. i long it for long-term fort foalos. david asbin is coming up on forbes on fox. you are watching all things news. you are watching fox and dave and now. well, liberal are fanning in america today pushing the president's agenda for tax increases with few if any spectaculars about spending cuts. many of these are specific about what they don't want cut and don't touch entitlement spending echoed by democraticic lawmake. >> i think social security should be taken off from the table. >> moment yoize social security or voucherize medicare or block grant medicaid you lose us. >> but the new forbes report showing that moreeople in the states are taking money from the government than the private sector, can our nation afford a deal that doesn't put so-called entitlements on the table. i am dave. we'll go t mike, to you. we have to put entitlements on the table? >> for the sake of the over all economy we must put enments on the table. over the last four years entitlement spending is growing faster than the over all economy. this is why president obama ha

-class families face the distinct possibility of higher tax rates in january. with so many americans who are still struggling to find their economic footing after the deepest recession of our lifetimes, these looming tax hikes would be hard for those middle-class families and they are completely unnecessary. newspaper stories day after day on the so-called fiscal cliff often omit that the senate has passed legislation to shield 98% of families and 97% of small businesses from the income tax part of this so-called fiscal cliff. we passed the middle-class tax cuts act on july 25 of this year and we sent the measure to the house of representatives. did speaker boehner and the republicans in the house promptly pass this popular bill and send it to president obama for his signature? did they move to protect 98% of middle-class families from this tax hike in january? no. no. they decided to hold the middle-class tax cuts passed by the senate hostage in an attempt to push for tax cuts for the folks they care the most about, the top 2% of highest earning households. republicans fighting for millionaires a

obama. i really liked mitt romney. why do i have to pay less taxes than my friend from massachusetts? that really bugged me. host: that is stephen from connecticut. tyrone is a republican from the bronx. caller: i think hillary clinton would be an excellent candidate in 2016. i think she handled the middle eastern issue to the best of her ability. also, as far as the gop is concerned, i think she has made strides toward eliminating the tax spending through various commitments with private entities and organizations that are coming out of the woodwork. i was watching earlier today and what they were requesting from the white house was let's fix this problem by incorporating a small businesses and less government intervention to curb the deficit. it has been astronomical. then i heard barack obama say the way we are going to do it is by making more cuts in various ways. he was saying by making more cuts and the only people it is going to hurt is the working class and somewhat of the middle-class. he should mention the fact that out of control spending has a lot to do with the credit ca

civilians. right now, i want to start with the story of the week. the tax man cometh. the main thing between president obama and congress over the fiscal curb is the unraveling of the con sen sense. glover nor quis managed to get every single republican running for office from school boards up to president, signing a pledge that reads, i pledge to taxpayers to one, oppose any and all efforts to increase the income tax rates for individuals and or businesses and two, oppose any net reduction or elimination of reductions in credits unless matched dollar for dollar. his pledge has been useful to the republican party for a number of reasons. first, it led the republican party to push tax policies that move hundreds of billions of dollars into the bank accounts of wealthy people. it's also given the central right a single, simple policy objective to pursue, no matter what. a kind of north star for modern conservatism. now, members of congress seem to be losing their way. >> there's a lot that has been said about this pledge. i will tell you, when i go to the constituent that is reelected me, it's

. >> both sides are coming out swinging. >> raising tax rates will hurt the economy. >> i will not play that game. >> president obama standing his ground. >> i will not play that game. >> he's not willing to play that game. >> playing the smackdown. >> i think the president has boxed the republicans in. >> i know we have it to raise revenue. >> is he the only republican? >> i don't care how we do it. >> raising tax rates hurt the economy. >> let's just go over the [ bleep ] cliff. >> if they do not make this deal on tax rates for the top 2%, then they're going away. >> i just hope this doesn't >> i will not play that game. >> it goes into february and march. >> public opinion is on their side. >> when we have to raise the debt ceiling. >> i will not play that game. >> this is about gaining maximum leverage. >> we've gone through this before. >> some republicans believe that will give them more leverage. >> it's government at the brink all the time. >> these guys are not serious about negotiating. >> the next 72 hours are critical. >> i think we're going over the cliff. >> let's just go

will be cut by january 1 in order to avoid sequestration and all the tax hikes? mark, i will start with you. >> i think it is 80% that we will avoid sequestration. the question is, though, is this going to be a big enough deal, and will actually be enough of a down payment that it will lead to something else subsequently that will actually avoid the kind of enormous consequences of $16 trillion of debt? that percentage will be lower than the 80%. >> let's come back to the big picture -- in the short term, by january 1 -- will we avoid the cliff? >> i think it is likely that we avoid it. it does not appear that that is going so well. it is so easy for us just to do the things we need to do. i think the real line in the sand is going to be the debt ceiling. i really do think -- i have said that for a long time. i think that is when, hopefully, by that time anyway we will have real entitlement reform, which will bring all of this together. >> chris? >> i think it is better than 50% that we are able to get an agreement before january 1. but that is premised on a belief that our republican colle

calls, e-mail, and tweets. after that, a look at the estate tax which is set to go up at the end of the year unless congress and the white house act. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] senior republican aides are contemplating a fallback plan for the so called "fiscal cliff", which includes extending tax cuts for the middle class and resuming a fight over spending and taxes for the wealthy later. meanwhile, going overseas, nato makes a move on the turkish border with syria. military officials deny preparations for military intervention. protesters in egypt march on the palace as mohamed morsi flees. international and domestic news is all on the table for you this morning as we open up the phone lines. also, send us a tweet. or post your comment on facebook. or send us an e-mail. we will get back to that new york times story. first, some other headlines on the domestic front. here is the "washington times." also, sticking with the senate, the baltimore sun reporting this headline -- in politics, here is

tomorrow. >> brenda: just as the unemployment rate is dropping, is capitol hill signaling tax heights are coming? add up the signs. a key conservative leaving the senate for the private sector as republicans reportedly cook up a doomsday plan that would give the president the tax hikes he wants. so if taxes go up, will jobs go down? hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, let's get right to it. here they are, the bulls and bears this week. we've got gary b smith, tobin smith. and julian epstein, welcome to everybody. todd, if taxes go up, get ready for that unemployment rate to shoots up, too. >> you've got that right. brenda, not only going to go higher, we're looking at hundreds of thousands of jobs eliminated because of higher taxes. you can't, you can't simply look at small business owners small business comprise of two-thirds of all jobs created in the country in the last ten years, if you're going to raise that personal income tax, that's going to hit the small business owners they won't have enough to go out and hire and we all have to be prepared because the

that taxes and middle-class americans that violates the fundamental preliminary that the president has -- in order to preserve low tax rates for wealthy americans, to ask the middle class to pay the price is not going to happen. it's not just the policy. >> only taxes on those families making $250,000. >> every proposal that has been seen and analyzed imagine you can achieve the necessary amount of revenue by closing deductions or closing loopholes, does that in one of two ways. one, raising taxes on the middle class by eliminating very family-friendly deductions like the mortgage deduction, health care deduction and others or by taking draconian action on the charitable deductions and others that aren't good policy or aren't realistic. it would be hard to explain, i don't think members would want to explain to nonprofit hospitals, major charities, universities and others that all that -- all those contributions that they received in the past will not be forth coming because of an action of congress, i don't think that is realistic. >> one last question, if the amount of revenue were t

again it solely is because it doesn't raise tax rates on the rich. when is obama going to rise above that obsession? when will he lose that over rich people and tax rates? i don't know. tonight, i'm is going to try to call his bluff. anyway, also breaking tonight, potential catastrophe if syria uses its chemical weapons. president obama issues a stern warning to syria and i quote the world is watching. and there will be consequences if syria uses these wmds. have we just committed ourselves to another war? and the gun control debate is squarely back in the spotlight tonight after the murder/suicide by nfl player in kansas city, second amendment instead of blaming the sick people who use them. republicans have responded to a fiscal cliff counter offer to president obama. eamon javers joins us now from washington with all the details. good evening. >> reporter: good evening. leapt me walk you through the specifics or at least what specifics we have so far from this boehner counter offer and you can see where it falls short from the white house's perspective right in the top line take a

of january's big tax hikes, companies and investors are cashing out, including one of president obama's biggest supporters. plus as susan rice makes the rounds on capitol hill, we will look at what could make up the national security team in president obama's second term. >> i am ready and willing and able and excited to go ahead and get this issue resolved in a bipartisan fashion so american families, american businesses have some certainty going into next year. >> i'm disappointed in where we are and disappointed in what's happened over the last couple of weeks. going over the fiscal cliff is serious business and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it, and i would hope the white house would get serious, as well. >> welcome to the journal editorial report. i'm paul. not exactly a meeting of the minds this week between president obama and house speaker john boehner on just where talks to end the fiscal showdown stand. the president, for his part, took his case to the public and repeated his call for a tax hike on upper income americans but made little mention of cuts to entitlement s

that senior aides are considering just such a strategy to give them a soft landing in the tax debate. they live to fight another day on spending cuts. we agree that a tax hike on middle-class americans should be taken off the table in the middle of the christmas season. >> let's get serious and across of the biggest item on our to do list and get this senate tax cut bill passed and passed now. >> questions? >> you going to call on people? >> yes. >> >> we're here to encourage the hike that will average $2,200 a are getting ready for the newit is fair, it is one thing that trillion in spending reductions. gas to go back and forth to the house as well as olympia republicans said, why don't you the house it will pass with a bipartisan vote. what other spending cuts would you propose? what has gotten us into this mess is people propose large numbers and never fell in the details. we have filled in the details of our first step. let them kill and the details of their first step on it attacks or the spending side. they have not done either so it is not much of an offer. >> what they did sa

the bush tax cuts to everyone, including the rich. revenue, cost savings, cutting, whatever you want to call it from vague areas such as closing, special interest loopholes and deductions, savings from health care and cuts in discretionary spending. other than that, no specifics. president obama wasn't feeling it. he said the gop must agree to one thing to get anywhere close do a deal. >>. >> wee going to have to see the rates on the top 2% go up and we're not going to be able to get a deal without it. >> speaker boehner fired back. >> this week, we made a good faith offer to avert the fiscal crisis. now, we need a response from the white house. we can't sit here and negotiate with ourselves. >> so, here we are, just over three weeks from going over the fiscal cliff. you're probably getting a lot of stuff around the house this weekend wondering what the heck is going on in these houses in washington. this is the worst of american politics. they put themselves and their political games first and put your future and prosperity second, but hey, you voted them into office. remember what

and they send one of pier that calls for over one half trillion in new taxes, calls for not even $400 billion in cuts and this extra spenng that is greater than the amount they're willing to get. but not a serious proposal. lou: senate minority leader writing a little easier in the midst of what is at best a process. he burst into laughter when treasury secretary presented the president's plan. the president, meanwhile, showing no sign of interest initiation, giving no sign he is ready to makeany significant step toward resolving the impasse. president obama cast himself as santa claus i a campaign style rally. his comfort zone, while blasting republicans and reminding them, he will not forget who stood in his late on tax increases. >> of course santa delivers everywhere. i have been keeping my ow money and nice list for washington. visiting towns like this. >> president obama got his wish rather than negotiating with republicans he was simmering them back on the campaign tail at a factory in pennsylvania that makes angry brds toys. >> it's not acceptable to me, and i don't think it's accepta

. >> he is selling out our children right now with these massive tax increases and that's a starting bid. he's saying here $800 billion now will you sit down with us, obama? >> twistill with the votes get counted in his caucus of republicans, boehner seems to have more room to maneuver than he did in preelection face-offs over political matters. even if the republican speaker gets a deal, can he get it passed? joining me now, republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma and marsha blackburn of tennessee, thank you both so much for joining us, that's really the key question, we keep saying they'll get a deal, they'll get something. it doesn't matter whether the two of them get a deal, it matter also the speaker haas the house votes to vote for it. how free a hand do you think the speaker has? >> i think inside the caucus, what people are looking at is how do we solve the system-wide problems? and if you're going to talk revenues, you've got to talk cuts. you have to talk reforms. you've got to talk trust funds and medicare and entitlements. >> 20-something days to do that. >> these are thi

and team boehner are back at the negotiating table. but there is still substantial disagreement on tax rates, tax revenues, domestic spending and entitlement reform and the clock is ticking. speaking of tax hikes, europe's grand experiment with taxing the rich more is falling apart, especially in france and britain. and here at home, california and new york are passing through the 50% tax rate barrier. is anybody looking at how tax hikes fail the test of economic growth? >>> back here in the u.s., could it be michigan which used to call itself the worker's paradise union state is now moving towards new anti-union right-to-work legislation and it looks like it's going to pass? but first up, budget talks resume between speaker john boehner and president obama today. with just 25 days to go, let's keep tabs on where we stand. reports of a conservative backlash against speaker boehner simply not true. he has the solid support of his leadership and the rank and file. but there is concern among some in the gop that they are at risk of becoming the party for rich people while president obama

with both tax and in seven of reform while. he says the days available before the close should be devoted to raising taxes on the ridge. >> we're not going to be able to come up with a comprehensive tax reform package that gets it all done just an next two weeks. ww are not going to be able to come up with necessarily a comprehensive and thailand reform package that could sell the next two weeks. when you looked at what arnold reagan did back in 1986, working with bill bradley and others, that was a year-and-a-half process. among let's put a downpaymmnt on taxes, let's let tax breaks and the upper-income folks go up. lou: president obama is looking to hide even more taxes. to find more taxable victims beyond the so-called rich. but there are yet more conditions as white house press secretary jay carney today reminded us. the president demands any deal is dependent upon a hike in the nation's debt ceiling. carney says the debt ceiling is another issue the president simply cannot bring himself to negotiate with those lowly republicans on the hill. and today began a new campaign of blame for

out our children right now with these massive tax increases, and that's his starting bid. he is saying here is $800 billion, now will you sit down with, us a obama? >> hashtags with names like fire boehner have become popular. still, where the votes get counting, boehner seems to have more room to maneuver than he did in preelection faceoffs. but it begs the question, even if the republican speaker gets a deal, can he get it passed? joining me now is tom cole of oklahoma, martha blackburn of tennessee, thank you both for joining us, and i think that's really the key question that we keep hearing. they'll get a deal -- they'll get something. but it doesn't matter if the two of them get a deal, it matters if the speaker has the house votes for it. tell me about the feeling in the caucus now for how free of a hand the speaker has. >> i think people are looking at how do we solve the system-wide problems. if you're going to talk revenues, you have to talk cuts, reform of your trust funds, medicare and social security -- >> you have 20 something days to do that. >> these are things that we

pledge to not raise taxes? >> guest: it's not up to me to decide what violates and what doesn't but i don't think so. i think keeping tax rates where they are is the question and you can increase revenue without increasing the tax rate partly by that and a more efficient system. it distributes investments away from the nonproductive loopholes towards things that generate economic growth and that's something that paul ryan has been a leading advocate of. so i think this is a really smart proposal by the speaker, and it was -- i was pleased to see every republican. it wasn't just his name. it was extremely significant. hopefully the white house understands that means a unity of the republican leadership at that table, and if there's unity there i assure you there is in the republican conference. >> host: here's a letter to the white house with of the signatures of the leadership team including paul ryan of the budget committee. a lot of the callers have talked about the lack of detail in the proposal. what loophole deductions do you get rid of an order to bring in more revenue? >> guest: ag

. ♪ >> the speaker's proposal right now is still out of balance. >> their proposal would raise taxes on millions of middle class families. >> when you look at the math, it doesn't work. >> we can generate revenues not from raising rates but from reducing the exemption it's, the deductio deductions, and the loopholes out there. >> it would take me too long to go through all the math. >> we're going to have to have higher rates. it's not me being stubborn or partisan. it's just a matter of math. >> this is a continuation of hirs campaign. he thinks he won it. >> president obama has been re-elected. >> to get a deal done, you're going to have to have higher tax rates on the top 2%. >> the one thing the republicans have going for them is they're leaning on erskine bowles. >> i heard what you were saying. you know nothing of my work. you mean my whole fallacy is wrong. >> i'm happy to be flexible. i recognize i'm not going to get 100%. ♪ >> it certainly 'tis the season and whether you're counting the days to the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, christmas day, or judgment day, there's much to do and

capital gains rate in the a.m.t. is higher than the regular tax rates from incomes around $200,000 to $500,000. and that was the first broad expansion of the a.m.t., it began to hit an awful lot of people. then in 2001 they reduced regular tax rates but did not reduce a.m.t. tax rates. . for many people, the a.m.t. tax bill only changed the name of the tax i paid. i got little benefit from the rate ofin my opinion, the expand on tax has nothing to do with the action of indexing. it is the result of the conscious decision to hike the cost of tax reductions. >> the alternative minimum tax is 28%. if your tax rate was lowered to 25%. you still have to pay 28%. >> that is correct. for incomes between to london thousand dollars and $500,000, the effective tax rate is 35%. you hit the 35% rate and incomes fire lower than the income levels at which you would hit the 35% rate and regular tax. >> why do they call it a patch? >> it is a one time year by year patch to stop the broad expansion. you could ask why they call it a cliff. they have discussed this in terms of the patch. it is a

duty increase, freezing tax are raising the personal allowance next year he thinks will be most benefit for the family? >> what i would say to my honorable friend is with have to take some difficult decisions. we've had to take difficult decisions on welfare of bring along tax breschel, operating but i try to help families were can with the personal allowance, with fuel duty. i've tried to help business. it will be extremely welcome. >> how can the chancellor seriously attend he -- [inaudible] when the 7 billion pounds he referred to today we take up to seven years to realize at the rate of 1000 a year against the rate of tax avoidance of 35 billion year? when the general anti-avoidance will be also refer to is far too narrowly drawn to be effective, and if you would listen to this, when he himself is actually now introducing a tax cut, tax havens from 23% to just 5%. >> what i would say is i don't think he's got the right figures. we are increasing the amount recovered of taxes that should have been paid from 13 billion under the labour government to 20 billion. it's an 11 billion poun

was laughed at by republicans last week. this week the gop counter offered. theirs, extend tax cuts to the everyone including the rich. $2.2 million in areas from closing loopholes and deductions, savings on health care and cuts in discretionary spending. other than that, no specifics. president obama said the gop must agree to one thing to get anywhere close to a deal. >> we have to see the rates on the top 2% go up. we're not going to get a deal without it. >> speaker boehner fired back. >> this week we made a good faith offer to avert the fiscal crisis. now we need a response from the white house. we can't negotiate with ourselves. >> here we are just weeks away from going over the fiscal cliff. you probably wonder what's going on in these houses in washington. they put themselves and their political gains first and put their future in prosperity second. hey, you voted them in. remember what happened the last time washington got into a budget battle like this? lawmakers put a band aid on the problem and the u.s. lost its aaa credit rating in the process. i warned you about the ec

of a government-insured reverse mortgage. it will eliminate your monthly mortgage payments and give you tax-free cash from the equity in your home. and here's the best part -- you still own your home. take control of your retirement today. ♪ ♪ well, having a ton of locations doesn't hurt. and a santa to boot! [ chuckles ] right, baby. oh, sir. that is a customer. oh...sorry about that. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. fedex office. >>neil: and if republicans thought there was wiggle room in the white house tax position no less than treasury secretary geithner put that to rest. >> rates and revenues, tax rates, tax rates, tax rates. higher rates. rates go up. tax rate increases. higher rates. rates will we have to go you. rating rates. tax rates going up. >>neil: we will have a quiz. what was he saying? a lot? that is the administration's way saying tax rates or take a hike. >>guest: the president is in an ideological position and geithner who is famous for not paying taxes is perfectly happy to carry white house water on capitol hill and on the tv shows and this, really

rate and raises $800 billion in new tax revenue by reforming the tax cut and closing loopholes. the plan rejects specifically raising tax rates, but it is significant that john boehner has gotten his entire leadership team, including congressman eric cantor, kevin mccarthy and even former vice presidential nominee and budget hawk paul ryan to publicly sign their names to a plan that through closing loopholes raises taxes. in an effort to give this offer more bipartisan credibility, speaker boehner said the plan is based on a proposal by former clinton chief of staff erskine bowles. bowles said he was flattered by the use of his name but satsz the proposal, quote -- so far, this greek fiscal drama has yet failed to return. the larger question for america, the play ends in tragedy on december 31st. joining me now from washington, is the president for -- president of americans for tax reform, conservative counter broker and the man who does not believe in unicorns, pink or otherwise, mr. grover norquist. grover, what a day to have you on the show. thanks for joining us. >> absolut

squarely at john boehner. $800 billion tax hike will destroy jobs, allow washington to spend more. as you all know, john boehner put an $800 billion tax hike as a center of his proposal. so john boehner got rejected from the white house, which wants another $800 billion on top of that in tax hikes and then rejected by the right wing of his own party which wants absolutely no tax hikes at all. so unlike harry reid, i actually feel genuine sympathy for john boehner. so kudos, speaker, for showing deserters or desenters who is boss. boehner stripped house members who opposed key committee assignments today. and earlier i spoke with one republican leader in the house who himself has been out of step with boehner in recent days. deputy whip congressman tom cole of oklahoma. he said the gop should agree to obama's proposal to extend bush tax rates for households that make less than $250,000. and they should do that deal right now, deal with the rest later. boehner said no way. and then tom cole said boehner should not offer a counterproposal to the fiscal cliff deal the president presented. boe

's demand for higher taxes for the rich. that's good. he agreed in principle the rich must pay more. number three, there's talk for the republican leaders that they could vote to continue the tax cuts for the 98% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> let's allow higher rates to go up for the top 2%, that includes

which would trigger tax cuts and spending increases unless taxes increase on the top two percent of wage earnings. >> i want you you to understand when it comes to raising taxes on the wealthy. if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthy. >> all right. it appears the very definition of the american dream is now being rewritten by president barack obama. now, today our commander-in-chief publicly said he's not going to play games with the fiscal cliff, but that is just not reality. right now the president is playing a very dangerous game of chicken and this is with your paycheck and the american dream. meanwhile, the republicans have allowed themselves to get caught in a circular firing squad. they're negotiating publicly among themselves while true conservatives and tea party members are being removed from key committees. today speaker john boehner adopted the president's class wawarfare rhetoric. shocking? watc

taxes and entitlement cuts point toward a deal by christmas. what is standing in the way? this morning, the debate is right here. the house speaker's top lieutenant, congressman kevin mccarthy, and top white house ally, the assistant senate majority leader, dick durbin. mccarthy and durbin square off. >>> then, what is the political endgame for both republicans and democrats? who wins and who loses as this fight drags on? >>> plus, the future of the republican party is a hot topic as both sides start plotting the 2016 campaign. our political roundtable features two former capitol hill insiders, newt gingrich and lawrence o'donnell. plus, three journalists on the story. >>> the looming fiscal cliff 22 days away. is it stalemate or compromise? we'll go inside the negotiations with two top leaders in just a moment, but i want to start with the ongoing crisis in syria where the assad government is cracking down on its own people. and this week something significant happened. the president signalled a big potential shift in u.s. involvement there. here's what he said. >> i want to make it a

's big tax hikes, companies and investors are cashing out. including one of president obama's biggest supporters. plus, as susan rice makes the rounds on capitol hill, we'll look at who could make up the national security team in president obama's second term. ♪ >> i am ready and able and willing and excited to go ahead and get this issue resolved in a bipartisan fashion so that american families, american businesses, have some certainty going into next year. >> i'm disappointed in where we are and i'm disappointed in what's happened over the last couple of weeks. the fiscal cliff is a serious business and i'm here seriously trying to resolve it and i would hope the white house would get serious as well. >> welcome tt colonel, editorial report, i'm paul gigot, not a meeting of the minds between president obama and house speaker john boehner where talks to end the fiscal showdown ends. the president for his park took his place for the public and called for america and little cuts to entitlement spending something the speaker says must be part of any final deal. wall street journal c

percents of americans to pay more in tax after having 12 years of a special tax break, which was only supposed to be temporary. if you say yes vote for me. mitt romney says, no, we are going to caudle, protect that top 2%. we are not going to raise their taxes. so if you say no, vote for me. that was a choice. the american people overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly, margin of 5 million, voted for president obama. john boehner is acting as if we never had an election in the first place and the election doesn't mean anything. is the senator has passed a tax break and john boehner is saying no, we will let 98% of americans pay $2,000 more in taxes. we will give a tax increase. we will raise taxes on 98% of americans unless you give us another tax break for our buddies and millionaires and billionaires, the top 2% in the country. you can't blame even mitch mcconnell any more. it's john boehner who is standing in the way. he did so again the republicans give this babble. the president says what's your plan? what do you want to cut? close loopholes. what loo

tax rates go up. at the same time, two dozen republican house members signed a bipartisan letter with democrats defecting from the boehner plan. in the meantime, a nice game for the day for the dow, but a stunning selloff for apple. do you know what? fiscal cliff or not, the s&p 500 is up 12% year to date. that is a handsome gain for investors, an optimistic year, believe it or not. and we already bailed out detroit's auto industry. but now, at least one motown politician is telling president obama he should bail out detroit bankrupt city government, too. this sure isn't the free market, and i asked why should a texas taxpayer bail out detroit? >>> breaking news from syria, and it is a blockbuster. the assad regime is walking and loading its chemical weapons, ready to use them on its own people. nbc's chief pentagon correspondent joins us now. jim, is this the red line president obama was warning about? >> well, not quite yet. u.s. officials tell us that the syrian military is poised to use chemical weapons against their own people, and all it would take really is the final order

recommendations in the report create 1.7 million jobs. everyone talks about taxes and what's going to happen with the fiscal cliff. in the last 10 years there's been $1,500 for every american consumer has gone to increased oil prices. $1,500. we're now talking about $2,000 take the tax cuts make a different for middle-class americans. you can get them that tax cut today if you invested in our report. and then everybody talks about entitlements. the social security administration trustees have said that high oil prices make the social security trust insolvent five years sooner than they would if you didn't have high oil prices. look, we all know what america needs. america needs jobs. america needs growth. following the recommendations in our report will lead to both of those. that's going to be good for the politicians, it's going to be good for the consumers, it's going to be good for american business. >> let me bring in the senators here to ask about -- i'll start with you, senator alexander. if you could just tell me a little bit about energy policy in this country and where it fits in i

for the thousands pass a middle-class tax cut which we approved here in the senate in july. as the days until the country goes over the fiscal cliff goes by, more and more republicans have joined our chorus. they recognize that the willing misto compromise sooner has put them in a real bind. so reasonable republicans are asking the house leadership to allow a vote on the senate-passed legislation. what was once a trickle has become more of a flood. last week republican representative tom cole said it was time to give middle-class families certainty their taxes won't go up by $2,200 on average on january 1. then tim scott from north carolina ad admitted that the senate-passed tax cut will surely pass the house since it will take only 26 republican ren votes for passage. i don't most of the time agree with david brooks but no one can dispute this columnist for "the new york times" is brilliant in writing. he's a great, great journalist and explains things so well. i really have great admiration for him. he wrote yesterday, "republicans have to realize they are going to have to cave in on tax ra

cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused not on cutting spending but on raising daxs and revenues with the only question being which taxes, how much revenue, then obama wins. now if obama succeeds in making the argument not about his spending, but about grover norquist, he wins there, too. for republicans, on the other hand, if they can figure out a way to refocus the debate on spending, they win and the country wins. we can't kid ourselves that's correct is not easy to do. obama has the biggest microphone in the land and he also has the media in his hip pocket. all the gop has is control of the house. now it's very hard, it's inherently hard for any brin. of congress to present

's looming tax hikes and spending cuts commonly known as the fiscal cliff. despite a call between president obama and john boehner, the two sides appear to be no closer to a compromise. are republicans working on the scenes on a plan b? wall street journal columnist, dan henninger and kim strassel. you have bean working the phones, is there something going on between speaker boehner and the president? >> no, i think that they are nowhere and it's because the president is refusing to budge at all on the top toks ratestopx rates and we'll go off the cliff if the republicans don't acreed to that demand. so we're still at a stand still. >> paul: kim, why is the president so insistent on increasing tax rates? boehner has already put on the table a comparable amount of money to be gained from putting a cap on deductions, about 800 billion over ten years, so such a-- >> look, paul, two reasons. first is ideological. his partisans, his liberal base believe this is somehow a symbol of winning the tax fight and you can only do that by raising the rates on the wealthy in the country and they're insist

of dollars, but sharpton is in favor of raising taxes on the so-called wealthy maybe because he knows he will not pay the tax rates. fairness is among the other americans, not him. that's my two cents more. thars all for to be the. thank you for joining us, dvr the show if you can't catch us live. have a great night. we'll see you right back here tomorrow. ♪ lou: the obama administration tonight ramping up diplomatic efforts to end seer -- syria's bloody civil war and the fear assad could use chemical weapons against his own people. the military is prepared to use poisen gas bombs, secretary of hillary clinton flew to dublin to hold a meeting with her russian counter part and u.n. enjoy to syria meeting to discuss how they would end the now 21-month long conflict in syria and how to move assad from power. and there's no sign they had to reverse the support, and today, a senior lawmaker says the syria government is now incapable of functioning properly. just before the meeting with the russian foreign minister, secretary clinton insisted that the united states and russia share

. what's the compromise that both sides can live with on taxes, spending cuts and entitlement reform? >> i think we'll get a deal. everyone realizes how important it is, our economy is moving up some, not fast enough but some, and to go over the cliff would be terrible. i think we'll get an agreement. the reason i think we'll get an agreement, what's standing in the way is revenues, particularly making that top rate go up to 39.6 but we're seeing real progress in that regard in two ways. first, a good number of republican conservatives, people like colter and crystal, said we have to do it. last week tom coburn said it's preferable, cutting deductions and business leaders who support mitt romney, the head of fedex and at&t saying let it happen. the president won the election on that issue and i think you will see our republican colleagues reluctantly say 39.6. >> let me interrupt and bring in senator corker. senator schumer's right, a growing number much republicans and conservatives, not a majority, but a growing number, are saying we have to cave on tax -- on raising tax rates, not

of the republican party today. with senator demint speaking on the idea that $800 billion of tax increases were offered. but he got the backing of mitch mcconnel. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i think it sis important tha the house leadership is trying to mov move it forward. i had hoped that we would be accomplishing more in the real talks. but i can tell you, there is nothing going on privately that is not going on publicly. even as he has to deal with this rebellion. he has to deal with democrats and harry reid's comments today give you a sense of where they are coming from. >> they have to come up with specific revenue. and they refuse to do that. it is a simple question of arithmetic. you can't get from here to there unless you raise the rates. so as you know in washington, a rebellion in the ranks like this could be a problem. but in the spohort-term, if it remains constrained. it could be a good negotiating term. he could say i have offered everything that i have and still get this thing passed. you know, i never hear the discussion about spending. i'm not saying you. it is abo

at the top, the 2%, are safe. your bush tax cuts are going to keep on giving. one problem, mr. boehner, you lost. that was your position before the election, and you lost. mitt romney campaigned on keeping the tax cuts for the wealthy, and he lost. and he promised to do what john boehner is doing right now, and he lost. how about some respect for the electorate? how about seeing what the 2012 presidential debate was about? obama championed tax fairness and won. republicans championed protecting that 2%, ignoring the 47% he talked about, and they lost. today boehner said he's willing to raise revenues by the same amount he agreed to back in august of 2011, the last time they had this fight. again, he's willing to act like the election never happened. no wonder. again, he lost. joining me is joy reid of the grio and howard fineman of the "huffington post." joy, you're chuckling because it is weirdly true. it's almost like groundhog day, this guy, boehner, he's not a bad guy, but he's operating on a bad thought here. the election didn't happen. >> it's incredible. it's amazing watching john bo

a factory in china and sell cars. they can delay paying u.s. taxes on that indefinitely. but the money comes from the rent, as so-called passive income, they have to pay taxes on that immediately. this provision says if your a bank -- you can be late paying your taxes. it is going to be considered active income. it is quite valuable to them. it is kind of a gray area. in 1986 when they did big tax reform, they said that is active income and we should tax that money. host: we have been talking with sam goldfarb from cq roll call. thank you very much. >> explores the history and literary culture of all money -- of albany. tonight on c-span, a senate debate on the fiscal cliff. shaun donovan discusses it. harry reid and mitch mcconnell when back-and-forth on fiscal cliff issues and a proposal to raise the debt ceiling. here is part of their exchange. >> yesterday afternoon, i came to the floor and offered president obama's proposal on the fiscal cliff to show that neither he nor democrats in congress are acting in good faith in these negotiations. with just a few weeks ago before a potentially

that the republicans accept a hike in the marginal tax rate for those with income over a quarter million dollars a year. my view? obviously i agree with the white house on the substance and as i have said before, their hand gets stronger over time. but sometimes a new idea can change the dynamic. here is an idea that has been around for a long time, supported by james tobin way back and pushed by ralph nadar in a "washington post" op-ed this weekend. impose a tax on financial transactions. it will give us up to $100 billion a year, fail on a sector that has generateed enormous unwarranted profits for very few but benefited from huge bailouts the regulatory help but by and large escaped responsibility for their role in the financial cataclysm we're still struggling with. with me, dan gross author of "better, strong, faster." and brian beutler and eric bates. what's your take on this? how severe will the harm be to the economy if we do not have a deal by december 31st. >> the macroeconomic harm is not going to be that great. our economy is adaptable adjustable. these things take place over the course of

ultimatum on higher taxes as a republican decision rather than his own declaration. his staff organized a sit-down wi a middle class family today in virginia claiming congress is to blame p they fail to yield to his ultimatum. why is the mainstream liberal media ignoring the reality it's the president's ultimatum driving us to the fiscal cliff? chris and senior writer for the weekly standard, steven hayes the guests here tonight. we begin with the dictator trying to maintain command of the country using chemical weapons as a deterrent. fox news chief washington correspondent james rosen has the latest for us in this report. >> a regime helicopter captured in the skies in syria in a video unloads something, most likely, a defensive flair to detour antirebel runners, but that epitomizes the fear of which the serian people now live. rebel forces taking the flight to the assad regime inside the capital with a deadly explosion in the arab red crescent building outside the city. >> it's very clear the regime forces are being grounded down and that they are losing. >> in seeking to squash the

a month, nearly $400 billion in tax increases will combine with sequestration, more than $100 billion in mandatory across-the-board spending cuts over one year, to drag our nation over the so-called fiscal cliff. what those tax increases mean to an average american family of four earning $50,000 a year is over $2,000 in higher income taxes. add to that expiration of the alternative minimum tax patch, new taxes mandated by the federal health care bill, and the reinstatement of the death tax, which will impact the next generation of farmers, ranchers, and small business owners, which americans will see the largest tax increase in the history of our country. if all of this happens, the congressional budget office predicts the nation's economy will shrink next year and the unemployment rate could rise again. in other words, we go back into recession. i believe we can avoid the fiscal cliff and address our massive deficit but that requires doing three essential things: reforming our tax code, reforming entitlement programs, and better controlling our spending. we can get additional revenue

does not include a tax increase on the so-caldwell thee but does contain $800 billion in revenue through tax reform, another $600 billion in health savings and much more. all told, the net savings amount to around 2.2 trillion dollars. the white house responded to this letter by saying that the president is, quote, willing to compromise but not on the subject of making job creators pay more in taxes. however, what our tax and spend commander-in-chief fails to understand is that putting money into the hands of you, the american people, is the single best way to spur economic growth, and it's not just people like ronald reagan who understand this principle. bill clinton famously said the era of big government is over and the end of wel welfare as we know it. why? because government is not the answer. government is the problem. there was that other iconic democrat, the one that occupied the oval office in 1962. he spoke of the benefits of cutting taxes. president obama, i hope you're watching this. >> this can be the most important step we could take to prevent another recession. th

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